Athelind: They can't have my country.
Gods, I hate living in bad sci fi.
Darkwulf: Yeah, I know.
The world hates us and nobody cares. A friend and I got into a debate about "how right" the war was. I asked him what right we had to run the world. He answered "someone has to".
Athelind: Well, frankly, as I said to Raffy last night -- the idea of the US strutting around toppling tyrants and oppressors doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that we're so selective about WHICH tyrants and oppressors we topple.
And... in response to your friend... brrrrr. That attitude is EXACTLY the problem.
So, if it had been the Soviet Union making these moves after WE'D collapsed in the early '90s, it would be okay, because "someone has to"?
Darkwulf: I'm incensed at how "Operation remove Saddam from power because he's hidingchemical weapons and we think he's funding terrorists" became "Operation Iraqui Freedom". They didn't say a thing about "Iraqui Freedom" in the days leading up.
Suddenly, the fact that we could prove neither diddly nor squat about his Weapons Violations didn't matter, because it was All About Liberation.
Just like before that, the fact that we could prove neither diddly nor squat about his Connections To 9/11 didn't matter, because it was All About His Weapons Violations.
Darkwulf: Oh, and in response to my question about when we'd officially withdraw from the UN, he replied, "Who cares? It's outdated anyway. The UN hasn't accomplished anything in how many years?" I hope he's not Joe Six-Pack.
Athelind: What incenses ME is the attitude of "Well, I opposed it before, but now we're doing it, so it must be right."
Darkwulf: I support our troops. They're doing their job; wrong orders aren't necessarily illegal.
(Though I still maintain that the war is. But that's another argument.)
Athelind: Um, wasn't it the UN who was coordinating the GENUINE peace-keeping efforts in Bosnia?
And hasn't it occurred to him OR ANY OF THESE FUCKING LOSERS that the UN just MIGHT accomplish something if its MOST POWERFUL ECONOMIC MEMBER MIGHT ACTUALLY BACK IT UP NOW AND THEN?
Darkwulf: Yeah, but the US is the strong-arm of the UN, and nobody else actually enforces anything. Right? :p
Athelind: Know why I got out of the Coast Guard back in 1990?
I took an oath to "Obey the orders of the President" AND "To defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC."
I couldn't reconcile the two when Bush Senior was in office.
Much as I want to support our troops, and as much sympathy as I have for them in this situation, there's still a part of me that doesn't have a lot of sympathy for those who can accomplish the doublethink with Bush Junior.
Darkwulf: Our foreign policy blows. We have to be the ones in control.
Athelind: Yes. Blow it does.
Darkwulf: I don't know if it's because I "understand" politics better now or what, but Bush Junior seems really...random and erratic? More so than anyone I remember.
At the beginning of his administration, I was impressed by the fact he had enough sense to gather people who were good at what he wasn't. Now I'm wondering what the hell happened.
Athelind: Bush's handlers are as sociopathic as he is, if not moreso. I mean, look at Cheney.
Darkwulf: Powell seemed like a good guy. But in the UN hearings, he seemed rather...well...rabid.
Athelind: They've got something on Powell. They've threatened his family or something. He just made too dramatic a 180.
Darkwulf: And France and Germany and all those are such jerks. How dare they use the checks-and-balances system set up in the UN for just the purpose we demonstrated? :p
Athelind: Oh, much less the commies here in THIS country who want to use the checks and balances in that Constitution thing.
Darkwulf: If they put me in charge, I'd be assassinated within a week. There are just too many people who seem to have gone off the deep end.
Athelind: Welcome to "The Crazy Years".
"Mr. President, we need to attack these people."
"What have they done?"
"Well, they need to be put in their place. Look at them!"
Where did these people come from?
And how did the general public decide that they're RIGHT??