Whether or not I agree with Representative Frank, I gotta admire the way he addressed that.

YES.

Gotta love it when these people are told right on the spot like that.

Epically awesome.

Hah! Yes.

Anyway, I think that picture of Obama with a Hitler mustache drawn on looks more like the black version of Ron Mael of Sparks. :}

It's good to remind people like this that although the First Amendment codifies their right to speak, it does not include the right to make others listen.

Nor does it protect them from being called out on the dumbness they bring forth. Some oddly seem to think it protects against criticism.

Indeed. I've run into this more than once.

They should have been doing that from the start. I mean, I don't support Obama's health plan (because it isn't single-payer) but . . . for crying out loud, it's SO STUPID to compare what Obama is doing to the Nazis. SO STUPID. It should have been a Democratic talking point from the moment that it was clear this was an organized campaign to point out that they're trying to help millions of people and to ridicule their hecklers with their incredibly immoral stand and ridiculous comparisons to Stalin and Hitler.

I'm not happy with the Obama plan, either.

I'm not even willing to say "it's better than NO reform", because if it's half-assed and FAILS, then the neofeudalists will all say, "HA! We TOLD you it wouldn't work!", and any kind of health care reform will get put off for ANOTHER generation.

But, yes. We need more vitriol and ridicule on the Left.¹ The crap the Right Wing and the corporate tools are spouting is so BATSHIT INSANE, but the mainstream media² keeps treating this "vile, contemptible nonsense"³ as though it were some kind of rational discourse.

And because it's so shrill and loud, it's impossible to actually discuss the PLAN ITSELF, and how to IMPROVE it. We're stuck between Wishy-Washy Half-Assed Plan and Batshit Insane Death Panel Lies.

That's the frustrating thing about this whole administration: health care, the war, the Cuban Gulag, the environment. We've got these lunatics screeching about how his "socialism" is going to drive the country to ruin, and if he stumbles or fails or loses support, they're going to claim that as a victory -- even though the support he's losing is from the people who don't think he's liberal ENOUGH.

But you can't SAY that. It's been drowned out.

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¹ I know, I know, we need more LEFT on the Left.
²Am I allowed to say "the mainstream media" even though that's a Right-Wing Buzz Phrase?
³ I really love that phrase.

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Yes, you can say "mainstream media", hehe. At least, you can say it to me. I am not fooled. The mainstream media - being a tiny number of giant corporations - are almost by definition conservative and, uh, really, mostly always have been. ;)

But it gets worse. Because these people who are shouting down the health plan aren't even getting close to being honest about what they're really upset about. They're freaked out that Obama is black. The reason they have these Hitler comparisons is because they're terrified that black people will seek revenge for the lousy way they've been treated for centuries in America. It's stupid, but it's clearly the subtext there. It's so twisted - they're attacking a health care plan because of fear of a black planet.

And you might not believe this, but I'd really like a world where we didn't need vitriol. The person I want to be gets everyone around a big round table where we figure out the best solution for everyone. But vitriol is a little like violence - it becomes justified when someone else starts it. You can't defeat vitriol with reason, most of the time. You need to be reasonable, have reasons, offer the hand, but you've also got to be willing to back it up with some heat. I honestly believe much of the problems the Democratic Party have is because they aren't willing to come out swinging when it's clear the Republicans have no interest whatsoever in honest discussion.

Honestly, I'm not sure if being candid and calling bullshit bullshit counts as "vitriol". Rep. Frank wasn't vitriolic in this clip, really. He was mildly SARCASTIC, but mostly just offended that he even had to deal with this lunacy.

Well, defending yourself against vitriol is generally considered pretty vitriolic. I heard that after Frank shot back at the crazy woman, the talk became about Frank "talking down" to the public. At least some of the audience members thought it was vitriol.

And even if it's not vitriol, defending yourself against it wastes time, effort and energy that could be productively spent . . . if not for the vitroil. There's basically no good way to deal with mudslinging. I hate it that mudslinging works so damn well. Even as it poisons the well, it leads to political victory. Pretty much either major party, if they're willing to sling mud, can stop the other party from doing things. Which is why both of the parties look alike, I figure. Since they can, basically, stop each other whenever they want to put effort into it, the people who tend to get elected are the ones who can "do things" - and it's inherent in a system dominated by negative politics that to do something requires a broad consensus. This selects for, well, the politicians we have.

But the Republicans are willing to do it more often. Which is probably unfortunate because it gives them more power than their numbers suggest and has contributed to the rightward drift of the Democratic Party. I mean, it's lookin' like Obama's gonna take the public option completely off the table.

Re: Screams of tyranny now, silence over the Patriot Act:
I ran across an article online awhile back, and I wish I could recall where, that addressed this. The general gist was: We tried to warn you. We tried to tell you that Bush and his cronies wouldn't be in power forever, that your party wouldn't be in power forever. But you didn't listen. And now, Barack Obama has the power to listen to your phone calls.

The guy carrying that sign, and the loaded firearm -- because, to use his words, "Who'd be crazy enough to take an unloaded gun?" -- may be forgetting half of Jefferson's observation: the part about the blood of patriots. Call me cynical, but I doubt he'd be willing to go to jail, let alone die, for his cause.

Sure, as long as you don't shorten it to "the MSM". :}

Yep, there definitely needs to be more of that in the world. I really don't get where some of these retards are getting their ideas. Like he said, how exactly do you compare trying to increase health care coverage to Hitler? Durrrrr.

It's that crude cubbyhole arithmetic of theirs. Democrat = liberal = Socialist = Nazi! Nuance? What the hell's a "noo-awnce"? Some kinda Frenchy crap?

Sounds about right to me. ^^

1. Like it or not, we're stuck putting up with right-wingers and their total bullshit. Because as much fun as Hon. Mr. Frank's response is, he's only giving them more ammunition by being derisive and divisive. In a saner environment, I'd condemn him for worsening the problem.

2. On the other hand, I know how right-wingers work, and there's no response he could have given which wouldn't give them more ammo. So fuck it, he may as well say whatever he thinks and give us something to cheer on...

3. ... especially because the comparison to Nazi policy is completely stupid, irrational, unbiased, and odious as hell, especially coming from some privileged probably Christian right-winger directed at an openly Jewish and openly Queer congressman.

4. Damn it, if I weren't already blessed with a pretty kick-ass representative, I'd want to vote for this dude.

Yeah. In a saner environment, the woman wouldn't have asked the idiotic question in the first place.